Adding a spinnaker chute

The area of the Help & Advice forums where requests for help about the hull & decks, including bow & stern tanks and spinnaker chutes, of an Osprey can be posted. Additionally, if owners or others have hints and tips that might be of benefit to others they can be posted in the forum as well.
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Andrew753
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Re: Adding a spinnaker chute

Post by Andrew753 »

Just an idea, haven't thought this through entirely, but have you thought of a snuffer? Or perhaps an above-deck sock? The latter will get in the way of the genoa slightly and reduce effectiveness, but you're not racing so that shouldn't matter, surely
Greymalkin
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Re: Adding a spinnaker chute

Post by Greymalkin »

I like the way you're thinking, very much. I might have made a snuffer years ago, except the idea was mocked so heartily by bigger-boat owners scoffing at such a thing for a dinghy.

I wonder how readily the kite will snuff, in those desperate gusty moments when it suddenly matters to stop it pulling?

I'll keep thinking. ;)
Osprey1333
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Re: Adding a spinnaker chute

Post by Osprey1333 »

Dan,
Food for Thought

Apologies in advance for any perceived condescension, but I don't know your sailng competence skills.

I didn’t mean to put you off a chute, but if Andrew’s idea of a snuffer doesn’t work, perhaps you’d reconsider.
I can’t even imagine another system - using stowage bags a la 420 class etc.

Provided your Osprey is wood / ply, the job will take two or three weekends, and its not too difficult. Before that, get in the front tank with a decent lamp, and sus out possible fixing areas for a support bracket etc.

With the crew absent on the day, I’ve known a few who’ve helmed an Osprey single handed, and used a kite in light airs, but on a smooth lake, not on the sea.

Not to be forgotten is the length of the Osprey spinnaker – the sock extends most of the way along the centreboard case – that’s an awful lot of hand and arm movements in hoisting and dropping.

In dropping the kite, the norm’ is for the crew to detach the pole from the mast, and hold the outboard end above the horizontal, till most of the kite is in the chute. In your case sailing a port or starboard dead run would appear to be your only option in flying the kite, and leaving the pole up till most of the kite is in the chute on a drop

Advice from a member used to a self launching pole(s) system might explain if this can solve some of the difficulties for the single hander, but they’re horrendously expensive. A jib furling system might help too – clears the view and removes another handling complication.

Usually in a blow, even experienced helms sometimes end up with the kite under the bow in a drop; it usually fouls the centreboard, and it’s like slamming the brakes on with the helm falling forward. Even with a crew, its surprisingly time–consuming and difficult to get the kite back onboard - involves untying the sheet or guy etc., meanwhile your dead in the water and a hazard to shipping,

I must admire your courage, your post seems to indicate that you’re sailing on the Solent – how do you right 937 after a capsize; if you haven’t experienced it, its worth practising with help at hand.

If you’re not a member of a club, for your on safety could I ask you to consider it, as there’s much to be gained from joining one. Above all, organised supervised sailing is much safer – I can vouch for that having started sailing on the Bristol Channel in a Miracle, and being rescued fortuitously by a passing fishing boat when stuck beating home against wind and tide. I won’t tell you about another occasion when I nearly drowned in a leaking drysuit and a big swell, but was rescued by my crew in the nick of time.

Club racing will enhance your learning curve, and the support you obtain from fellow members might also result in obtaining a crew.

Hwylio Dda – Good Sailing
Greymalkin
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Re: Adding a spinnaker chute

Post by Greymalkin »

Hi John,

No danger of condescension, I need all the advice I can get, and thank you. I don't say that because I'm wilfully reckless...

...I've been mostly singlehanding the mk2 for six summers in the Solent, and I've only capsized once. That was when an unsecured toestrap let go and I slid overboard backwards, head first. It wasn't windy and despite not having righting-lines and masthead float that day, I got her up without too much trouble.

But I always have plenty of respect for the Osprey's size, weight and power. Being chicken about stronger winds has meant I've never been too exhausted or daunted to go back next time for another day afloat, although last summer seemed breezier and I launched less often. I've been talking (rather than trying) for much too long, lately.

Singlehanding her, I've occasionally had to turn and run (or broad reach) as ten knots started gusting 15; in that much wind I can't keep her upright and driving, upwind. Having said that, I'm only just getting used to the benefit of the trapeze, which I hope will slightly raise the wind strength I can cope with; although solo trapezing is another technique to perfect.

I had returned to the idea of launching the spinnaker out of the bag, because in the sub-ten-knot winds when I can cope in the boat, I can picture it all working fairly easily. Probably more like sub-six knots, when I try it the first time. When it comes to the drop, I'm guessing the key will be not to let either clew fly free, so when I let the halyard run, the foot will be under some tension and clear of the water; so I'll just need to pull the retrieval line in briskly under the boom and drop a fender on the bulk of the kite to keep it on the cockpit floor. Then slacken the guy and get the corners in, and sort the pole and lines at leisure.

The amusing part (as you may have guessed) is that I don't think I've ever been out in any dinghy which had a spinnaker set - so I've spent a very long time just getting the controls clear in my head. When the first day does come, I'll have an action camera set up to capture the calamity (or the impressive spectacle).

For the record, my mk2 is all glassfibre. I'm not sure if that makes the chute option easier, or harder? And I am at a club (the only Osprey there), so on weekends there are safety RIBs if it all goes wrong - although I do day-sail quite a few miles from the club, in gentle summer weather. I've never sailed on a lake so I don't know what I'm missing, but when heavy commercial traffic sets big smooth swells rolling in and I can surf a bit, there's no part of me which wishes I sailed any smaller dinghy, or was limited by freshwater shores.

Many thanks again for your advice.

Dan
Osprey1333
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Re: Adding a spinnaker chute

Post by Osprey1333 »

Dan,
Spinnaker handling single handed using pouches / bags.
In light airs on dry land, its worth practising many kite hoists, drops, and jibes – this will test feasibility, requirement for more gear, and / or hone your skills.
Any time the kite touches the grass its a fail - its under the bow - analyse what went wrong.
If these practice sessions prove successful, repeat the process with the mainsail deployed. If still o.k. you’re now ready to take to the water in light airs, or not as the case may be. If all the above fails go for a chute.

I’ve now seen a photo of your Osprey on the Forum for Cruising; you have a forestay and furling jib, and your text indicates you posess a spinnaker. What I can’t make out from the photo is the sturdiness of any metal fitting across the back of the mast gate – this is important because a forestay is not really compatible with a kite. With the forestay removed, If the jib tack fixing fails the mast may fall backward and take you out.

On the web there’s some good photos and descriptions on the following site :-
http://www.draycotewater.co.uk/fleets/f ... e_pol.html
Although its for a Fireball with a chute, I think the rigging of the uphaul / downhaul, halyard, sheet/guy and twinning line mostly apply.

Bear with me on this - Normally one end of the kite halyard is secured to the kite head, the other end is secured to the downhaul patch The kite is in one big loop with the halyard.
The normal take off and cleating points for the kite halyard is at the back of the centreboard case, with the halyard running down the starboard side of the case, thro’ a sheave in the mast foot, and up inside the mast, and then down to the chute and secured to the kite head.
The down haul end of the halyard is fixed to the patch on the kite which, when in the stowed position, will be towards the end of sock on the port side of the case. The mid halyard section runs from the hoist block around the back of the case and into the sock – there may be an intervening block

You won’t have a chute or sock, but you’ll have to decide if you also need a halyard take off block and cleat further forward. With the main deployed this might mean a halyard block and cleat on the starboard side only. That may mean you’ll have to come back onto a starboard jibe in order to drop, or no jibing ???

There’s no chute so dependant on using the port or starboard bag will determine if your going for a starboard or port hoist.

Say you’re on a starboard run
1. Jib must be furled with the halyard outside the port jib sheet

2. If kite is going out to leeward (port), starboard twinning line 3/4 on and cleated. Port twinning line partly
pulled out but not cleated. Attach guy to outer pole end and attach pole to mast horizontally forward.
Somehow control the sheet (port) so it doesn’t go under the bow during the hoist.

3 A quick hoist now - watch the jib sheets - miss one hand over hand in the sequence and your done for.

4. If the kite is going up from windward side I believe the pole needs to be out of the way - you can fit it when
the kite is up - pull out some starboard guy and attach to outer pole end whilst pole its still on the boom
Chuck the kite up in the air and forward of the jib, and hoist like hell – attach the pole to the mast.

5. Pull in sheet and guy, to centre the kite – cleat the halyard and guy and play the sheet. Pole now at right angle to mast

6. Now run aft like hell to steer or start swimming

7. In the drop, uncleat the halyard, and immediately pull the other end until nearly all the kite is on the
foredeck; now gather it up at your feet – stow the pole and tidy up – not sure how many times in this
sequence you’ve been aft to steer ??

Let us know how you get on

Safe sailing
John
Osprey1333
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Re: Adding a spinnaker chute

Post by Osprey1333 »

Dan,
previous post had an incorrect link for Draycote SC Rigging Tips. Should have been :-
http://www.draycotewater.co.uk/fleets/f ... mmon_.html

Also at the top of the page that comes up is "Rigging Articles and Info" Inter alia this contains a link to "boats with bags", but I'd start with the above link first.

I didn't mention Gybing on my previous post either - my advice here is " don't think about it" when first on the water. Build up slowly to Gybing - start by going for a drop, bring the pole around to the new side, and then a hoist agin.

I admire your determination, however my original advice about a crew still stands.

Another thought is visiting, and chatting to, Osprey sailors at other clubs in your area on rigging, spinnakers, etc., I can think of Castle Cove, and Poole who have an active fleet - apologies to others not mentioned

Best of luck
John
Greymalkin
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Re: Adding a spinnaker chute

Post by Greymalkin »

Hi John,

Thank you for your carefully considered reply, I'm learning plenty.

You make a good point about my "doubled" forestay. The genoa has a wire luff and the roller-drum attaches to a very sturdy fitting in the deck - and of course the halyard's adjustment allows mast rake - so the other, 'headstay' that is visible in the photos, is only a spare. I've neglected to find a place to tie it off when sailing - it could probably line up with a shroud, but I'll need a hook there to secure it. It will certainly obstruct the spinnaker if I leave it in place.

Interestingly, the pictorial Draycote spinnaker description you suggested, was recommended to me a few months ago as an authoritative guide. That makes me think there can't be very many spinnaker experts who have taken the time to write and illustrate a complete "how-to". It certainly looks logical and very slick, although others on the forum where I was asking the question, pointed out that the Draycote way is only one of several.

Each time I think about the task of fitting chutes, snuffers, on-deck hoop-mouthed mesh-socks or other furlers, I'm eventually persuaded that I can wait for a very gentle day when there's just enough breeze to fill the kite...and I'll find out just how daunting it is in reality. The calmness of the scene I'm picturing will prevent much damage or chaos, but will hopefully teach me a lot. Most likely, I've been thinking and doubting for so long, the reality won't be as tough as I've imagined.

Your numbered points are very clear, I'll study till I know them by heart. I especially like "Now run aft like hell to steer or start swimming."

Of course, it was my hope to avoid any air of panic (which may be inevitable when one man attempts the tasks of two), that made me think a chute would help...

...but I've read many accounts of kites twisting, snagging, dragging and otherwise misbehaving in the chutes of very ably engineered modern designs; so in light winds and with practice, I may conclude there's a nice freedom from complication, in being able to get my hands on the sail quickly without all the friction caused by tugging it round corners and through tubes.

Regarding the dash to the helm, I actually rigged up a short section of webbing with Velcro-hook tape sewn on to it. The webbing is tied to 1/4-inch shock-cord, whose tension across the aft of the cockpit allows the Velcro section to be held firmly amidships, an inch below the tiller, on which I fastened the 'loop' section of the Velcro...

...so when the two Velcro patches are made to meet, the tiller is fairly well secured. I think it will suffice to keep the boat steering straight for thirty seconds while I organise the pole, and hoist or drop the kite. Of course, singlehanding downwind and not heeling, it'll be more than usually important not to slip overboard on auto-pilot, or Greymalkin may wash up serenely under all sail on the beach at Ryde or Lee-on-the-Solent one day, while I'm bobbing around a few miles behind.

It's probably time I admitted that as well as not hoisting my standard spinnaker afloat, I also haven't yet tested my alternative solutions to boosting singlehanded downwind sail area. I was pretty sure that the answer would lie in not having to attach and detach the pole at the mast...

...so over a couple of years, I acquired two nice asymmetric kites, of very different cut and fullness. I'll try to attach photos below. The first, black asymm is a very flat-cut, rather tall sail designed (I believe) for a catamaran. I think it'll be quite entertaining on a close reach, when the Osprey's symmetrical kite wouldn't fill. It's about double the area of the genoa, with a long leech and short foot, but I rather like the way it looks, seen here from port side, astern...

Image

The other sail, which I bought last year was made by Ullman, for an RS400. Apparently RS racers can't use sails made by anyone except RS, and whoever had ordered the sail from Ullman decided they didn't want it. So I got a new sail at a quarter the price. It's a very full cut, and around 150sq ft.

I think it could be poled out from the cockpit to goose-wing dead-downwind, and should allow some fairly easy broad reaching at a good pace. The white bowsprit was a 100% carbon windsurfer mast. Making it launch and retract hasn't been easy - possibly no easier than using the standard pole and spinnaker - and it'll need to be adjustable, for the different kites. It all makes an interesting project though.

Image

Thanks again for all your hints - I've had plenty in the past, but rarely from people who know Ospreys.

Dan
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